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We\u2019re in Manhattan, sitting in a Lower East Side garden, and BENEE<\/a> is telling PAPER<\/em> about the gap between her latest album, Ur an Angel I’m Just Particles<\/a>,<\/em> released earlier this month, and her critically acclaimed debut, Hey u x,<\/em> which she shared in 2020.<\/p>\n \u201cAt the start, I was trying to make something faster,\u201d she says of her time in Los Angeles working with Buddy Ross (Haim, Frank Ocean). \u201cHe\u2019s a legend, and he brought up the album Blonde.<\/em> He was like, \u2018Do you know how long that album took to make?\u2019 He assured me that good things take time, which I think is a clich\u00e9. But unfortunately, it\u2019s true. It feels like you have to release to stay relevant. At the start, I felt that pressure, but then slowly I started to accept that it was just how I was going to work. I could only make it better if I really sat down intentionally with this album. It\u2019s an important one.\u201d<\/p>\n Slowing down was fruitful for the New Zealand-born singer-songwriter, leading her to write one of the first songs from the album, \u201cHeaven.\u201d \u201cIt was one of the earlier ones I made that I felt was setting a good tone and felt intentional,\u201d she says. \u201cI felt as though I was actually saying something. I was doing a bunch of sessions and writing songs that felt the most meaningful and important, then putting them together and creating the storyline. That\u2019s when I had that awakening. I knew what the story was and what I was trying to say. That\u2019s important.\u201d<\/p>\n Where her biggest hits, like the double-platinum, bedroom-pop anthem \u201cSupalonely\u201d and alternative radio mainstay \u201cGlitter,\u201d can be seen as bubbly party tracks, Ur an Angel<\/em> dives into existential dread, grappling with the fleeting nature of existence. For BENEE, it was important not to remake what she\u2019d already done. \u201cYou don\u2019t keep making the same thing,\u201d she says. \u201cIt\u2019s the evolution of an artist. I went into sessions in L.A. with people who wanted to recreate [\u2018Supalonely\u2019], and every time it was so lame. It was so bad. I don\u2019t think I can precalculate a hit. I can\u2019t chase it. I don\u2019t want it, even. I want big tours and big shows with big productions, but I don\u2019t think I can chase a hit.\u201d<\/p>\n Instead, she\u2019s chasing authenticity \u2014 whether it\u2019s working with fellow creative genre-pushers like PinkPantheress on her new track \u201cPrincess\u201d or spending her time reading Stephen Hawking. Ur an Angel<\/em> may have started as a cyclical study on the ephemeral nature of things, but when it comes to how she wants people to feel when they hear it, she wants them to feel very much alive. \u201cI want them to enter another world,\u201d she says. \u201cThis album was so intentional, which I haven\u2019t done yet. This one is cohesive. I\u2019m already thinking of future projects. This one is narrative. I\u2019m following themes of obsession, breakdown, chaos and ascent \u2014 in that order. That\u2019s the story, and those are the changes.\u201d<\/p>\n Below, BENEE talks about Ur an Angel I\u2019m Just Particles,<\/em> grappling with the success of her first album, and the beauty of feeling every emotion.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Ur An Angel I’m Just Particles<\/em><\/strong><\/em> comes out on<\/strong> November 7. And you released your last album in 2020? That\u2019s insane!<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s messed up.<\/p>\n Well \u2026 it\u2019s not that much time in actual life. But for the music industry, with people constantly putting things out, how did that time feel for you? Was it necessary? Rewarding?<\/strong><\/p>\n At the start, I was trying to make something a little faster. Then I made a bunch of songs and it wasn\u2019t hitting. I slowed down after a few sessions. I was talking to producers and they encouraged me that it was fine. I worked with Buddy Ross, he\u2019s a legend, and he brought up the album, Blonde<\/em><\/em>. He worked with Frank. He was like, \u201cDo you know how long that album took to make?\u201d He assured me that good things take time, which I think is a clich\u00e9. But unfortunately, it\u2019s true. You can get absorbed by the pace in which the streaming moves at. It feels like you have to release to stay relevant. At the start, I felt that pressure but then slowly I started to accept that it was just how I was going to work. I could only make it better if I really sat down intentionally with this album. It\u2019s an important one.<\/p>\n What song or moment were you able to see that shift from pushing to make an album to when it started flowing? <\/strong><\/p>\n \u201cHeaven\u201d was one of the first songs. It was one of the earlier ones I made for this album that I felt was setting a good tone and made it feel more intentional. I felt as though I was actually saying something. It was doing a bunch of sessions and having songs that felt the most meaningful and important, then putting them together and creating the storyline. That\u2019s when I had that awakening. I knew what the story was and what I was trying to say. That\u2019s important. I was making a lot of demos where I didn\u2019t know what I was saying.<\/p>\n What made the story come together for you? How did you know it was going to unfold into the album?<\/strong><\/p>\n After moving to LA \u2014 I\u2019ve been there for almost three years \u2014 when I moved there, I felt so lost and confused and overwhelmed by this complete life switch. I was isolated and started to ask all these huge questions. Like, \u201cWhat is life?\u201d I read a book by Stephen Hawking, and had a lightbulb moment. I was like, \u201cWhy am I worried about all these stupid little things in life?\u201d That allowed me to get deeper and make sure I was saying things that I felt were important and helpful in this climate. There are lots of things going on, lots of terrible things, and it\u2019s important as artists to have pure intention. For me, a way to cope is by having a childlike wonder lens or a fantastical world that I can escape into. That was what I wanted to do. I wanted to make that world for people in whatever way I could. That was a switch for me. <\/p>\n <\/p>\n This damn well might be heaven.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n <\/p>\n What made the story come together for you? How did you know it was going to unfold into the album?<\/strong><\/p>\n After moving to LA \u2014 I\u2019ve been there for almost three years \u2014 when I moved there, I felt so lost and confused and overwhelmed by this complete life switch. I was isolated and started to ask all these huge questions. Like, \u201cWhat is life?\u201d I read a book by Stephen Hawking, and had a lightbulb moment. I was like, \u201cWhy am I worried about all these stupid little things in life?\u201d That allowed me to get deeper and make sure I was saying things that I felt were important and helpful in this climate. There are lots of things going on, lots of terrible things, and it\u2019s important as artists to have pure intention. For me, a way to cope is by having a childlike wonder lens or a fantastical world that I can escape into. That was what I wanted to do. I wanted to make that world for people in whatever way I could. That was a switch for me. <\/p>\n Which Stephen Hawking book? What was it about it?<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s a great book, Brief Answers to the Big Questions. <\/em><\/em>He\u2019s giving his predictions for what the future might look like, whether it\u2019s space travel or AI technology. It\u2019s pretty nice to hear a perspective from a smart person, a scientist and for me, I hadn\u2019t gotten that before. I finished school when I was 17. I went to college for two weeks and then dropped out. But I love learning things you go to school to study. It sucks now, I mean I love music and I know a lot about it, and I\u2019ve become very woke. I\u2019m very deep and spiritual. But I think reading something from that world was really enlightening and inspiring. It\u2019s important to know about the climate and everything going on and what we\u2019re doing. One of his theories is that human destruction might happen before we even travel anywhere. But yeah, I wanted to read it because I was asking the big questions.<\/p>\n Do you feel like the overwhelm you had when you first moved to Los Angeles has gone down? Or have you begun handling it differently?<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s gone down somewhat but I still get pretty homesick. Having a community and a partner makes it a lot easier to cope. But I think the first couple years, I was definitely feeling pretty isolated. It\u2019s like going to a new school and you\u2019re like \u201cFuck, I need to make friends.\u201d All my friends were in New Zealand. LA was a weird place to find friends because I felt like I was attracting pretty weird people. There were a couple of people I had to cut off. Everyone warned me about it and I was so naive. I was like, \u201cThey\u2019re so nice!\u201d But I got a rude awakening. I was sitting in that loneliness, which was helpful in a way. I was forced to wonder why I\u2019m here and what I\u2019m doing and it made me think about my music a lot deeper.<\/p>\n I\u2019m from the South and moving here, to New York, people warn you about people, and it’s still shocking. You\u2019re like, \u201cWait a minute …”<\/strong><\/p>\n There are so many weirdos. I\u2019m like, \u201cDo you want to be my friend? What do you want? What are you gonna do?\u201d It\u2019s odd that people don\u2019t want a genuine connection. It feels like an illusion.<\/p>\n Right. Then genuine people get left with the dance of balancing letting people in so you meet the good ones but also maintaining boundaries to protect themselves. <\/strong><\/p>\n <\/span>There\u2019s a lot of isolation. I think of the lonely poet. I\u2019m a lonely musician. Which is fine. I\u2019m not lonely, but there are times when I feel alone. But it makes me think about everyone who is an immigrant or a refugee. Anyone who has to leave their family or home to find a safer life. For me, it\u2019s a privileged version of that. I\u2019m doing a job where I have so much freedom, but it\u2019s really hard. Anyone who\u2019s moved anywhere knows it\u2019s hard. I can’t just go over to my mom\u2019s house and I\u2019m so close with her. I call her every day. It\u2019s also just growing up. That’s what this album is, though. It\u2019s growing up and waking up to these big questions that I don\u2019t actually have the answers to.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n I was forced to wonder why I\u2019m here and what I\u2019m doing and it made me think about my music a lot deeper.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n <\/p>\n A lot of the album is you making sense of the world. Do you feel like you\u2019re getting better at finding some of these answers? Or making better sense of the world through this album?<\/strong><\/p>\n I think so. It\u2019s good to just learn all the time. That\u2019s what life\u2019s about. It\u2019s just lessons and maybe we end up coming to some kind of conclusion or resolution at the end. But yes, living in the emotion and being able to be sad is important. Feel it and come out of it. Humans are so complex and life is so beautiful. I\u2019ve come to love it so much, even though there\u2019s stuff that\u2019s sad. This damn well might be heaven.<\/p>\n That\u2019s funny. I\u2019ve never thought about it like that. I\u2019ve thought maybe it was hell.<\/strong><\/p>\n I know. But what if it is heaven? I think for some people it is hell, but there are days when I\u2019m just like, this is so serene and beautiful. We have plants and nature and little animals that just want us to be happy. We have people who are smiling. What could be better than that?<\/p>\n I go back and forth between thinking about life deeply and knowing I need to just enjoy it. Like, just watch the movie. You don\u2019t need to analyze it. But I\u2019m like, \u201cI have to write down what\u2019s happening. I have to read the script.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n But how much fun is it to think and wonder? That\u2019s the childlike wonder thing. I love that lens for life.<\/p>\n What was the first song you knew would be on <\/strong>Ur an Angel, I\u2019m Just Particles<\/em><\/strong><\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n It was either \u201cHeaven\u201d or \u201cSad Boiii.\u201d Those were the earlier ones, both made with New Zealand producers. \u201cHeaven\u201d I made on an island in New Zealand. I stayed in the bush with Josh Fountain who I made a lot of my earlier music with. I wrote it when I lost my granddad. That was such a crazy time because that experience of losing someone and thinking about life and death might have triggered a lot of craziness for me. It was a weird feeling. I was looking at my skin and being like, \u201cWhat are we? What the fuck is going on here?\u201d Losing someone was also a weird awakening, where I realized we only have a little bit of time. And it\u2019s fast, whatever we\u2019re doing right now. It doesn\u2019t last long. I think you can dwell on things your whole life, but not knowing and wondering what we\u2019re doing on this rock becomes overwhelming and scary. You have to make it a party. You have to watch the movie and drink the wine and eat the fucking bread and swim in the ocean. And that is my Ted Talk<\/em><\/em>.<\/p>\n <\/span>You have a collab with PinkPantheress. How did it come together? <\/p>\n <\/strong>I made it with a producer named Sly. It happened so quickly. He had 20 minutes at the end of a session and we wrote the song. It\u2019s a fantastical, feel-good anthem. I was walking into the party and owning the space, but also was like, \u201cWhy is my man looking at her?\u201d That extreme arrogance was taken over by a feeling of extreme anger. Those kinds of emotions are fun to write about. I had the song and knew I wanted a feature. I had some potential candidates but Pink was at the top of my list. She has such a good ear for melodies and lyrics. We\u2019re in the same circle in LA so I texted her asking. It\u2019s always a bit weird reaching out, but I get it because sometimes people send me demos and I\u2019m like, \u201cI don\u2019t know how I\u2019m going to make this better.” I don\u2019t want people to think of that as a rejection. But anyways, she hit me back and sent me the stems and I was like, \u201cThanks, bro.\u201d<\/p>\n She\u2019s extraordinary. She\u2019s on another wave. <\/strong><\/p>\n She\u2019s hilarious. She\u2019s got a funny personality. She\u2019s onto something really unique which is super inspiring. Also, coming from the UK where there\u2019s a sense of humor is fucking sick. She added so much to the song. We\u2019re gonna make a cool video in LA with a giant, pink, inflatable castle with a rave inside. It\u2019s gonna be sick.<\/p>\n You\u2019re music is also very unique. How do you stay true to yourself while collaborating with others \u2026 keeping things new, without having other people\u2019s sounds seep into your brain? <\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s weird. A lot of us artists work as sponges, absorbing things around us and spitting out a product of that. It\u2019s really important to preserve your own sound. I hear so much stuff now that sounds the same. You can listen to something and say it sounds like Sabrina Carpenter or PinkPantheress. For me, when I\u2019m listening to new music, if something sounds good I know I can listen to it ao I don\u2019t want to make it. The genre of some of my earlier stuff wound up getting super overdone. The indie-pop with the funk. At the time, we were getting requests to make more of it. That\u2019s why I didn\u2019t, because it all ended up the same. That\u2019s how the world works though. I like to make something new. Something I haven\u2019t done or haven\u2019t heard. Even if that is taking elements from other artists, the energy can translate and not copy. It\u2019s hard to do. But when I was making songs, for a long time, in the first year, so many of them were kind of hyperpop. I was having fun and people liked it. Then people got sick of it and I realized it wasn\u2019t a vibe. It wasn\u2019t timeless and I didn\u2019t feel anything from listening to it. I could have kept releasing that but it wouldn\u2019t have done much. <\/p>\n <\/p>\n Let\u2019s talk about \u201cCinnamon,\u201d since it was the first introduction to this era for many people. How did this song come to you? What were you hoping to translate with it?<\/strong><\/p>\n I worked on it with Ryan Raines, a producer in LA. He\u2019s a drummer and my drummer, Felix, who I tour with, he had met Ryan while we were out on tour. Ryan was playing with Dominic Fike at the time. When I came to LA and got the opportunity to work with Ryan, Felix was like, \u201cI know Ryan!\u201d and it was just a small world moment. I love him. We made a few songs from the album together. He\u2019s such a kind guy.<\/p>\n That really sticks with you, when people are really nice.<\/strong><\/p>\n Well, it\u2019s what I\u2019m used to, especially when I started making music. I was working with Josh and quite a few collaborators. They\u2019re all so kind and nerdy in the best way. In the way I am. So much of music is ego and people with humongous egos. With Ryan, we never know what we\u2019re doing for the first couple of minutes, but then it ends up rolling out and sounding good. I love working with him. It\u2019s such a comfortable setup. He\u2019s super talented and has a really good air about everything. I can tell him exactly what I want. \u201cCinnamon\u201d was my first song writing about the LA experience and getting there and being messed around by a couple people. I knew I wasn\u2019t meant to be getting treated like this. It was a rude awakening. In the chorus, it\u2019s this weird breath and let go where I\u2019m like \u201cThis is what it is,\u201d and I have to find some peace in it. I had to be content knowing that it\u2019s where I\u2019m meant to be right now. I kept saying \u201cRide the wave.\u201d I got a bit depressed, secretly. It crept up on me. <\/p>\n Sometimes I don\u2019t realize I was depressed until after, and then I\u2019m like \u201cOh.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n Right? I was smoking weed so much the first year or two and now I\u2019ve quit. I thought I was being really productive but I wasn\u2019t. That song, to me, is really meaningful. It feels like all those emotions I was having those first few years being in a new environment.<\/p>\n We talked a little bit your early sound and tracks like \u201cSupalonely\u201d and that high. Everyone wanted to jump on that and make something similar. Was it hard to move away from that sound? How do you look back on that time? How do you create new things when people love an original idea?<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s odd. I’m even guilty about saying that about artists\u2019 first albums. But it\u2019s not how it works. You don\u2019t keep making the same thing. It\u2019s the evolution of an artist. I definitely have heard that song and wanted to go back to those indie vibes and that organic, New Zealand sound. But I went into sessions in LA with people who wanted to recreate it, and every time it was so lame. It was so bad. I don\u2019t think I can precalculate a hit. I can\u2019t chase it. I don\u2019t want it, even. I want big tours and big shows with big productions, but I don\u2019t think I can chase that hit. After releasing it, it sucked seeing people come out and then switch on me and call it a one-hit-wonder. I was on a steady path before the fans came along and grabbed onto the hit, then dipped. It\u2019s been weird to navigate. And it was hard to not be able to tour when it was big. I realized after how depressed I was about losing that opportunity. Because that\u2019s the moment when you connect with people and chase that.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n That’s what this album is. It\u2019s growing up and waking up to these big questions that I don\u2019t actually have the answers to.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n <\/p>\n How did you grow your self-trust? You keep going back to yourself and what you know. That\u2019s not something a lot of people have. Have you always felt that way?<\/strong><\/p>\n [Remember] things are working. Whatever you\u2019re doing is working. You can collaborate with people or get advice from people, but to actually apply it yourself is different. Part of it is stubbornness and fuel of ego. It\u2019s a weird artistic ego of also hating yourself at the same time. When you\u2019re making art or writing or painting, you won\u2019t necessarily write it from someone else\u2019s perspective. If I\u2019m Picasso and painting, I\u2019m not asking someone random for advice? But I\u2019ve become more open to collaborating this year. I\u2019ve been very insular in the past. Michael Jackson worked with Quincy Jones a lot and Elton John worked with a writer. All these huge artists who have the best music didn\u2019t necessarily make it alone. Finding the right collaborators is key. They can help capture what you\u2019re about and put it in your story. I was 17 when I started making music. If I were working with different collaborators, it could\u2019ve been a different story. My collaborators allowed me to be myself. And that\u2019s why I trust the gut. You have to trust it more than you think. <\/p>\n If there was a feeling or energy or message that listeners could take away after listening to the album, what do you hope it is? What do you want to transmute their way?<\/strong><\/p>\n I hope they see it as a filter. Like life through a different lens. I worked really hard to make it this way. I want them to see the beauty and contrasting emotions. It\u2019s polar opposites at times. I hope they listen and watch and feel inspired. If things are more mundane, maybe they can see them in a different light. Look at a bug and don\u2019t squish it, you know? I hope they feel comfort. I hope they feel heard. I want them to enter another world. This album was so intentional, which I haven\u2019t done yet. This one is cohesive. I\u2019m already thinking of future projects. This one is narrative, I\u2019m following themes of obsession, breakdown, chaos and ascent. In that order. That\u2019s the story and those are the changes. The next body will be something new. It\u2019ll be a different way to evolve as an artist. I\u2019m already thinking about it. <\/p>\n <\/p>\n<\/h3>\n
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